The Sifton family has been the recipient of ~18 million dollars of public money between the Feds and the Provincial gov’t over the years. (according to the research I have done – mainly from reviews of local newspapers)
Public money built the runways.
According to my Markham Councillor, York Region is granting $320,000 per year to the private airport run by the Sifton family.
Now that the property has increase enormously in value, I'd like to know when we get paid back?
I'm impressed by the Siftons ability to scrounge public funding to help operate the airport while the value increases and then walk away with millions.
Shame on our politicians for letting them get a free ride.
Looks like someone doesn't like the Siftons. Same someone has a lot of erroneous "facts". The Siftons developed and funded Buttonville from their own pocket until 2002 when they received a meagre stipend from GTAA. Economically, the airport is worth hundreds of millions to the local region and economy. They'll notice when it is gone. Markam airport isn't capable of hanling the 200+ aircraft currently based at Buttonville and is not open to the public. It is a land bank for the Thompson family. The original poster of this thread appears to have a mouth larger then their brain and should learn to deal in facts rather than emotions. Yes, Buttonville is going to close and when it does, it will be another example of the government shooting itself in the foot.
Reply to @dazuppa: I've never taken instruction at Buttonville, but I've used it a few times as a transient pilot, and my experiences have always been positive as far as the airport itself goes: professional ATC, good facilities, friendly staff, reasonable prices, etc.
Your point about the location is very valid, however - you walk out of the airport into the middle of the vast, soul-destroying, post-apocalyptic suburban waste land that is Toronto's blue belt, with no public transit worth mentioning and nothing in walking distance worth walking to. That's why I usually cough up the extra money for the Porter FBO at CYTZ - it costs a bit more, but then I'm right downtown and can walk anywhere I want. The Island also offers a much more beautiful approach and departure.
You can't get in or out from this airport without a rental car, even though it looks like sitting in the middle of the city. Oh well, there is a bus stop next to a funerals home in front, but in winter they don't clean the snow there so you'll have to wait in a pile of snow.
Toronto Airways has one of the least interested instructors I've seen in the whole Toronto area! Like, really, if you are a potential customer (renter, student pilot, whatever), paying a hefty price, you may expect certain level of positive attitude towards you. FBO folks were nice, though.
Seneca College airplanes are also based there, and those guys are setting standards in competence and quality of flight training.
From the pilot prospective, runways are huge and comfortable. Tower is generally friendly, though if you are flying from CYKZ to CYTZ and vice versa they tend to be... a bit picky sometimes. Not really bad, just picky. Won't release you from the frequency until the last second, etc.
They have this funny little Markham airport plugged into their airspace - I'd suggest going through the CYKZ control zone instead! Markham people can pop up in front of you in a glider without warning (yeah, they have their own separate frequency for gliders, I know, but better - just fly with Buttonville radar keeping an eye on you and throwing advisories if needed).
Note there is another airport in Markham, that is privately run, does not and has not asked for the 100 of millions in public funding (towers, localizer, beacon, runway expansion, etc, and grants) that the Siftons have asked for and got through their political friends. The Markham Airport will expand to take on the small plane needs of the GTA if allowed and will fund it all privately, as it should be. Heather Sifton wants Buttonville to stay open so I am sure Derek is trying to keep it operational as the plan with Cadillac/Fairview allows. If the Siftons want to keep their airport, they with their other Billionaire friends can pay for it themselves, as the Markham Airport does. No public funds should have ever gone to this airport, and no tax breaks should be allowed in their redevelopment plans… that alone is another form of public subsidy in the tune of 100s of millions.
Using and allowing the expansion of the Markham Airport just makes more sense in the short term – maybe the long term if development of Pickering never becomes fiscally feasible. Let us spend our tax dollars on the public needs (even a few million is desperately needed), and allow the Markham Airport to develop privately to meet the needs of the pilots and small planes (including corporate jets) in the GTA. BTW Buttonville is not a heavily used airport, the Siftons inflate this number (aircraft movements) by calculating every aircraft that talks to the Buttonville Tower, all GTA plane traffic when flying through or near the Buttonville Control Zone contacts them – also training pilots doing endless circuits does not make for a “busy” airport.
Reply to @david: Yeah.. YKZ's aprons have always been uncontrolled. I don't know the reason why, because the tower has a clear view of the area. Before you could just call up "on the main apron" and you'd get taxi instructions. But now, the controllers want you to specify exactly where you are on the apron. Makes sense, this way they spend less time looking for you.
Reply to @bcrosby: Interesting. The main apron at CYOW has been uncontrolled as long as I've been flying, because tower can't see well enough to guarantee that you'll be clear of planes pushing back, baggage trains, etc. A typical clearance is back to the north field from the Esso or Shell is "taxi bravo, apron at your discretion, alfa, tango, hold short runway 22" — the "at your discretion" is controller-ese for "you're on your own taxiing around the parked Airbusses, bubba". I think CYYZ has a dedicated apron controller.
These are a little out of date, but thought I would mention it anyways.
1. Taxiing. The main apron (near the terminal) is uncontrolled. It is suggested that you let the ground controller know where you are when calling up, and be specific. Ie, "on the main apron holding short of foxtrot" for example.
2. When you need to talk to London FIC, do so using the RCO and *not* 126.7.
There is a Druxy's (deli chain) in the FBO. The food isn't too bad, standard deli stuff like smoked meat sandwiches, bagels, and salads. Not gourmet, but it's better than Subway, and it's easy if you're stopping at Buttonville.
Hertz rents out of Buttonville, and the rates are reasonable (make sure you use your COPA or AOPA discount if you have one). After hours is no problem -- I called earlier then arrived Sunday night long after the desk was closed, and my contract and keys were waiting for me at the FBO with no fuss. Renting a car is the only realistic way into Toronto from Buttonville, but it's easy since the airport is right beside the 404, which turns into the Don Valley Parkway and leads straight into downtown Toronto. Outside of rush hour, you can expect to be downtown in about 25 minutes. I still prefer City Centre (YTZ) for downtown, since it's in walking distance, but Buttonville is better for the 905 area code or anywhere else you might need to drive.
I stopped here for two nights on a return trip to Ottawa. The FBO is Million Air http://millionair.torontoairways.com/ located right by the control tower, so it's not hard to find taxiing. They marshalled me right in front of the terminal and chocked the plane, then later towed it to a spot and tied it down for me. I didn't need fuel (tanks were nearly full), there's no landing or ramp fee, so the only charge was CA $10/night for parking.
Comments about Buttonville Municipal Airport
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Comments 1 to 18 of 18 about Buttonville Municipal Airport:
Thu, 24 Nov 2011
The Sifton family has been the recipient of ~18 million dollars of public money between the Feds and the Provincial gov’t over the years. (according to the research I have done – mainly from reviews of local newspapers)
Public money built the runways.
According to my Markham Councillor, York Region is granting $320,000 per year to the private airport run by the Sifton family.
Now that the property has increase enormously in value, I'd like to know when we get paid back?
I'm impressed by the Siftons ability to scrounge public funding to help operate the airport while the value increases and then walk away with millions.
Shame on our politicians for letting them get a free ride.
It's a lesson in Corporate Welfare.
Fri, 26 Aug 2011
Looks like someone doesn't like the Siftons. Same someone has a lot of erroneous "facts". The Siftons developed and funded Buttonville from their own pocket until 2002 when they received a meagre stipend from GTAA. Economically, the airport is worth hundreds of millions to the local region and economy. They'll notice when it is gone. Markam airport isn't capable of hanling the 200+ aircraft currently based at Buttonville and is not open to the public. It is a land bank for the Thompson family. The original poster of this thread appears to have a mouth larger then their brain and should learn to deal in facts rather than emotions. Yes, Buttonville is going to close and when it does, it will be another example of the government shooting itself in the foot.
Sat, 09 Jul 2011
Reply to @dazuppa: I've never taken instruction at Buttonville, but I've used it a few times as a transient pilot, and my experiences have always been positive as far as the airport itself goes: professional ATC, good facilities, friendly staff, reasonable prices, etc.
Your point about the location is very valid, however - you walk out of the airport into the middle of the vast, soul-destroying, post-apocalyptic suburban waste land that is Toronto's blue belt, with no public transit worth mentioning and nothing in walking distance worth walking to. That's why I usually cough up the extra money for the Porter FBO at CYTZ - it costs a bit more, but then I'm right downtown and can walk anywhere I want. The Island also offers a much more beautiful approach and departure.
Tue, 07 Dec 2010
You can't get in or out from this airport without a rental car, even though it looks like sitting in the middle of the city. Oh well, there is a bus stop next to a funerals home in front, but in winter they don't clean the snow there so you'll have to wait in a pile of snow.
Toronto Airways has one of the least interested instructors I've seen in the whole Toronto area! Like, really, if you are a potential customer (renter, student pilot, whatever), paying a hefty price, you may expect certain level of positive attitude towards you. FBO folks were nice, though.
Seneca College airplanes are also based there, and those guys are setting standards in competence and quality of flight training.
From the pilot prospective, runways are huge and comfortable. Tower is generally friendly, though if you are flying from CYKZ to CYTZ and vice versa they tend to be... a bit picky sometimes. Not really bad, just picky. Won't release you from the frequency until the last second, etc.
They have this funny little Markham airport plugged into their airspace - I'd suggest going through the CYKZ control zone instead! Markham people can pop up in front of you in a glider without warning (yeah, they have their own separate frequency for gliders, I know, but better - just fly with Buttonville radar keeping an eye on you and throwing advisories if needed).
Mon, 01 Nov 2010
Note there is another airport in Markham, that is privately run, does not and has not asked for the 100 of millions in public funding (towers, localizer, beacon, runway expansion, etc, and grants) that the Siftons have asked for and got through their political friends. The Markham Airport will expand to take on the small plane needs of the GTA if allowed and will fund it all privately, as it should be. Heather Sifton wants Buttonville to stay open so I am sure Derek is trying to keep it operational as the plan with Cadillac/Fairview allows. If the Siftons want to keep their airport, they with their other Billionaire friends can pay for it themselves, as the Markham Airport does. No public funds should have ever gone to this airport, and no tax breaks should be allowed in their redevelopment plans… that alone is another form of public subsidy in the tune of 100s of millions.
Using and allowing the expansion of the Markham Airport just makes more sense in the short term – maybe the long term if development of Pickering never becomes fiscally feasible. Let us spend our tax dollars on the public needs (even a few million is desperately needed), and allow the Markham Airport to develop privately to meet the needs of the pilots and small planes (including corporate jets) in the GTA. BTW Buttonville is not a heavily used airport, the Siftons inflate this number (aircraft movements) by calculating every aircraft that talks to the Buttonville Tower, all GTA plane traffic when flying through or near the Buttonville Control Zone contacts them – also training pilots doing endless circuits does not make for a “busy” airport.
Tue, 26 Oct 2010
Cadillac Fairview will be developing the airport lands.
http://fly.blakecrosby.com/2010/10/buttonville-airport-to-close.html
Tue, 06 Oct 2009
Only Losers fly small planes.Get a Jet.
Fri, 21 Aug 2009
With the lost funding, the Sifton family is fairly certain they'll have to close Buttonville in a few years:
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto/story.html?id=1914431
(via @bcrosby)
Mon, 10 Aug 2009
Reply to @david: Yeah.. YKZ's aprons have always been uncontrolled. I don't know the reason why, because the tower has a clear view of the area. Before you could just call up "on the main apron" and you'd get taxi instructions. But now, the controllers want you to specify exactly where you are on the apron. Makes sense, this way they spend less time looking for you.
Wed, 05 Aug 2009
Reply to @bcrosby: Interesting. The main apron at CYOW has been uncontrolled as long as I've been flying, because tower can't see well enough to guarantee that you'll be clear of planes pushing back, baggage trains, etc. A typical clearance is back to the north field from the Esso or Shell is "taxi bravo, apron at your discretion, alfa, tango, hold short runway 22" — the "at your discretion" is controller-ese for "you're on your own taxiing around the parked Airbusses, bubba". I think CYYZ has a dedicated apron controller.
These are a little out of date, but thought I would mention it anyways.
1. Taxiing. The main apron (near the terminal) is uncontrolled. It is suggested that you let the ground controller know where you are when calling up, and be specific. Ie, "on the main apron holding short of foxtrot" for example.
2. When you need to talk to London FIC, do so using the RCO and *not* 126.7.
Wed, 15 Apr 2009
The Greater Toronto Airports Authority is threatening to stop funding for Buttonville airport:
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/616986
Mon, 29 Dec 2008
Construction on the new multi-million dollar terminal upgrade has begun!
More information about the details of the revamp can be found here:
http://www.aviation.ca/content/view/5962/117/
Sat, 15 Mar 2008
There's a gas station across the street that you can use to refill the tank when you're returning a rental car.
Thu, 09 Aug 2007
There is a Druxy's (deli chain) in the FBO. The food isn't too bad, standard deli stuff like smoked meat sandwiches, bagels, and salads. Not gourmet, but it's better than Subway, and it's easy if you're stopping at Buttonville.
Wed, 08 Aug 2007
Hertz rents out of Buttonville, and the rates are reasonable (make sure you use your COPA or AOPA discount if you have one). After hours is no problem -- I called earlier then arrived Sunday night long after the desk was closed, and my contract and keys were waiting for me at the FBO with no fuss. Renting a car is the only realistic way into Toronto from Buttonville, but it's easy since the airport is right beside the 404, which turns into the Don Valley Parkway and leads straight into downtown Toronto. Outside of rush hour, you can expect to be downtown in about 25 minutes. I still prefer City Centre (YTZ) for downtown, since it's in walking distance, but Buttonville is better for the 905 area code or anywhere else you might need to drive.
I stopped here for two nights on a return trip to Ottawa. The FBO is Million Air http://millionair.torontoairways.com/ located right by the control tower, so it's not hard to find taxiing. They marshalled me right in front of the terminal and chocked the plane, then later towed it to a spot and tied it down for me. I didn't need fuel (tanks were nearly full), there's no landing or ramp fee, so the only charge was CA $10/night for parking.
Mon, 23 Jul 2007
Main FEX base....good company brings back good memories and some great trips.
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